BITSTAMP:BTCUSD   Bitcoin / Dollar
1386 47 9
What is it? I miss the concept - Will never get it even if it trades at 10,000.
To me: no correction will ever be enough.

Away from this very subjective opinion, Bitcoin is reaching the cliff: Below here, it could fall vertically...

ALL THE POSTS I READ POINT UP.... It may be going lower then.. as it "should"... coming from nowhere and going back to nowhere...

This is not apple             or a pharmaceutical company with a blockbuster... This is nothing... A human marketed enthusiasm...

Anyway... you got it, i dont buy into it.
TokenBitcoin PRO
2 years ago
Of course the price may not go up with the line you drew. It may not go down with a vertical line either. Maybe price will stay the same for many months or years. But the protocol that is bitcoin does not gain or suffer from it's price.

To sum it up,
If you had to assign a value to a "packet" of data being sent by tcp/ip in 1994, what would the value of that data be in 2014 (if, like bitcoin, there were a limited number of packets today)?

Also, there were not very many credit card transactions in the 1970's compared to today.

So bitcoin has scarcity AND it has increasing volume and transactions. Bitcoin also has increasing numbers of users.

Bitcoin also has competition.

I encourage you to look up any of the top 10,000's of pages of information around its subject. The Federal Reserve just released a paper about Bitcoin two days ago. It is taken very seriously, though still regrettably misunderstood by the vast majority.

Happy trading.
+6 Reply
YaKa PRO TokenBitcoin
2 years ago
For a change: I am part of the big majority that do not believe in it... Any new phenomenon needs to be studied and apprehended especially if it could be threat to tax revenues... billions of pages on the subject would still not convince me...

You are definitely a believer... dont we have enough real money support to study with tangible intrinsic value? And even for those, have enough difficulties knowing where they go?

BTW: To me would have much more "value" if its value was stable.... The fact it went up 50,000% makes a joke. sorry not to subscribe to the joke.
-9 Reply
Lechango PRO YaKa
2 years ago
I agree with your point that it needs more stability, but that won't come without more volume and liquidity, after all BTC only a has a few billion $ market cap, tiny in the scheme of things. And BTC may never reach a point of stability or ever achieve a large market cap, but it doesn't really matter, blockchain technology is nothing to scoff at, there is no doubt that it or something similar will dominate in the future for tracking accountability for all sorts of aspects (not just money).

Also intrinsic value is bullshit, it doesn't exist, gold doesn't have it, bitcoin doesn't have it, nothing does. But what BTC does have over gold is ease of transfer while still being scarce and requiring proof of work in order to obtain.
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StudMuffin YaKa
2 years ago
Bitcoin is a lot of things. One of the things it is is a cryptographically secure currency which can be transferred to anywhere in the world at almost no cost to the user without a trusted third party. Not to long ago millions of dollars in bitcoins were transferred for like a few cents. There is value in that alone and that is just one thing bitcoin can be.

An entire family fortune can be stored in a secure manner without the need of vaults and be transmitted anywhere anytime without ever having to worry about monetary controls or banks. There is value in that. And that is just one more thing bitcoin does.

Bitcoin is also a programmable money... meaning, for example, I can program the bitcoin protocol to release the money in my account to individuals of my choosing upon my death, or on a birthday, anniversary, etc. I can create digital contracts requiring the digital signature of multiple parties before bitcoins are transferred.

Work is underway to denote specific "coins" to represent deeds and other property, wherein the blockchain becomes a trustless, digital asset registrar. Meaning, one day, the ownership of realestate, cars, etc. may be declared by control over the private key of that denoted coin.

Mircotransactions... suppose you would like to charge people to read your articles, but you don't want to charge so much that it prevents individuals from visiting your blog... you can require a microtransaction of only a few cents or fractions of a cent to read your article... it is possible that the bitcoin protocol becomes directly integrated with the HTML standard - their browser may be tied directly to a personal wallet which makes the transactions. Now you don't require advertising on your site but get paid directly from users.

Seriously, possibilities are endless, no one has even come close to dreaming them all up. The question you are asking is exactly what most people were asking when told about the internet and email back in the 80s and early-mid 90s. Email didn't even become popular until late 90s/early 2000s. Prior to the mail providers, email could be cumbersome to use and was only accessible to sophisticated computer geeks.
+2 Reply
johnrfraser StudMuffin
2 years ago
These are good points.
Can you answer the ‘rollback’ problem?
Take gold. Gold is fine as a commodity or money. You can pay me with it and a 3rd party cannot cause it to cease to exist once I’ve put it in my pocket and walked away with it.
If a ‘rollback’ of blockchain is possible it is like gold that can cease to be gold after I’ve acquired it…worse still, vanish altogether. So in fact the core value of bitcoin, ‘proof of work’ is not that at all. It is only proof so long as blockchain deem it to be and don’t write over it.
Making blockchain supremely powerful. It doesn’t get more Centralised than that!
+1 Reply
StudMuffin johnrfraser
2 years ago
A rollback is theoretically possibly but extremely unlikely. To my knowledge, bitcoin has never experienced a rollback. In addition, it would require the consensus of miners and users - so, if you got everyone to agree on a rollback, it could happen. More than likely this wouldn't be the case and if a large group tried it would probably result in a 'hard fork' - the creation of a parallel but distinct blockchain.
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johnrfraser StudMuffin
2 years ago
Thanks for your reply.
By 'everyone' this would mean strictly only miners, right?
And if so, the minority?
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StudMuffin johnrfraser
2 years ago
If 100% of the miners did not agree to the rollback or any update to the protocol for that matter, then the blockchain would 'fork' - creating two different blockchains which would be identical up to the time of the fork but different thereafter. This probably would not be beneficial to most and thus unlikely.

Its largely the miners but it really requires the users to accept as well and node managers... no point in mining if there are no transactions and users don't accept the terms and conditions in the updated protocol - no one will accept those coins as valid. Therefore, if miners want their block reward to have value they need to secure the network the users want.
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johnrfraser StudMuffin
2 years ago
Thanks a lot for your explanations AnonVigil
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AKWAnalytics PRO
2 years ago
No one cares what you personally think about bitcoin. It is a protocol, not a company.

Go back to what you can intellectually understand because this is obviously beyond your capacity.

+3 Reply
YaKa PRO AKWAnalytics
2 years ago
Dont say the contrary of what you do. You care enough to reply on a post you should not read....

Your reaction strengthens my point... this is possibly going lower, useful or not..

The more complex is the definition you put on it, the less able (my simple mind) is to get it, the more skeptical i am abou the whole concept...

Go find other fools to bite into your scam. Here: It does not work.
-8 Reply
YaKa PRO YaKa
2 years ago
haha... You guys and your -1... go ahead: you shoot yourself in the foot.. You are just ridiculous:)
-3 Reply
AKWAnalytics PRO
2 years ago
BTW, your chart needs to include historical Mt.Gox data from 2010 to be legit. Bad TA altogether.
+3 Reply
YaKa PRO AKWAnalytics
2 years ago
Thank you.. go read what you can understand... and publish something smart so we can assess if you are as smart as you pretend... I will not tolerate ignorance coupled with arrogance... Dont read me and please buy bitcoins in a leverage fashion so I can smile if it falls.
-7 Reply
the_batman PRO YaKa
2 years ago
thats not quite how leverage works
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lowstrife MOD YaKa
2 years ago
Just because you don't understand something does not automatically invalidate it from being useful or valid. Warren buffet doesn't understand gold or tech companies as well as he does other key industries, but that doesn't invalidate their potential. I don't understand nuclear reactors generating power but I don't automatically dismiss them as being nuclear weapons on a ticking timer.
+3 Reply
YaKa PRO AKWAnalytics
2 years ago
+ BITCOIN is the only index that can't be criticized without large reaction from dubious people like you... It makes it look like a scam big time.
-3 Reply
lowstrife MOD AKWAnalytics
2 years ago
His trend line is valid, the primary Mtgox price channel failed months ago and the secondary one failed when we dropped from 380. This bitstamp one is the "last line" which is why the market has been resisting so much lately.
+1 Reply
elp
2 years ago
One of the first exchanges for bitcoin was MTGOX, which stood for "Magic The Gathering".

Magic The Gathering is a fantasy card game of wizards and other fantasy creatures. The creators of Magic The Gathering took their fantasy games and started playing currency exchange with MTGOX which went bankrupt earlier this year. I am not making this up. Google MTGOX and Magic The Gathering.


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YaKa PRO elp
2 years ago
Voila... the name was fantastic.. too close to truth....
Like some guys that dared calling an credit SPV black hole long before the sub-prime crisis erupted.
-5 Reply
YaKa PRO YaKa
2 years ago
Can you add a few -1 so i can see how many lobbyist there are around?
-3 Reply
MoonTrader elp
2 years ago
Who cares what MTGOX did before it traded bitcoins? It's gone now anyway.
+1 Reply
YaKa PRO MoonTrader
2 years ago
MoonTrader, you are right... its gone and could have gone even if bitcoin was to last forever.. Irrelevant you are right... Even so, Bitcion is a bet that may not fly in the long run. Time will tell.
-5 Reply
StudMuffin YaKa
2 years ago
Every investment, every business, every idea is a bet that may not fly in the long run. I don't understand why you are making bitcoin out to be a special case.
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elp MoonTrader
2 years ago
I just thought it was surreal how a card game of magic, wizards and other fantasy creatures morphed into a financial exchange.

What's even more surreal, people invested into them, by converting their currency into bitcoins through an unknown exchange with no government oversight/regulations. If the exchange lost all your funds, or were stolen, there was no way to recover your funds, or even report them stolen.

When something seems to good to be true, it usually is.

This is just my personal opinion, and is not meant to be derogatory towards anyone who does invest in them.
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YaKa PRO elp
2 years ago
I am on the same page.
-3 Reply
YaKa PRO YaKa
2 years ago
sorry to say i agree: please add some -1.. Please.
-3 Reply
elp elp
2 years ago
Bitcoin was in a massive bubble too. Comparing it to silver, bitcoin is much more volatile than silver and exceeded silvers' parabolic rise. When something rises parabolic, it can return to it's lows or even break them.

XAGUSD
snapshot


BTCUSD
snapshot
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StudMuffin elp
2 years ago
But bitcoin and mt. gox are not equivalent. I don't have to hold bitcoin in any exchange and thus no risk at all except my own ignorance.
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kamk
2 years ago
I don't know where that came from - to picture primary trend on the log scale. I still feel this digital asset of its kind (first instance of blockchain technology) is overpriced by some social hype. I'd rather see it like this:
snapshot

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YaKa PRO kamk
2 years ago
Kam, Agreed, if 300 does not hold, 150 and if this does not hold 10... then it will lose its hype and will slowly converge towards zero with some spikes to 15.... that s how it could die slowly...

Some guys probably became millionnaires thanks to this...
Some smart guys probably followed with decent investments... They might lose it.

In a ponzi scheme (it could be something that has the same structure..), it is the final entrant that gets whacked..
-6 Reply
YaKa PRO YaKa
2 years ago
-3: not bad
-3 Reply
StudMuffin YaKa
2 years ago
How exactly does Bitcoin even closely resemble a ponzi scheme? There is nothing ponzi about it - that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of bitcoin.
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YaKa PRO
2 years ago
The funny thing is:

I am not naturally interested in bitcoin... There are just too many posts about it so every now and they I look at it and try to look at the price possible point of break.

Each time I post something on it... EACH TIME: Some Bitcoin ayatollah comes to try to explain what is bitcoin and it is always complex....

IT LOOKS LIKE A TOTAL SCAM WITH MANY SMART GUYS WHO PROBABLY ARE LONG TRYING TO PROMOTE IT IN A COMPLEX FASHION.

-9 Reply
MoonTrader YaKa
2 years ago
I'm not trying to promote it, but I'm seeing the same thing a lot of people are seeing... a year long wedge meeting up with a long-term trend-line with a three-drives pattern about to be completed within the wedge. The trend line you drew is a little to close. The one I drew shows the trendline at about $240 right now. I think we will get close to that, right near the bottom of the wedge where it intersects with the long-term uptrend. It really does seem like a good long setup. I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but that's just what I think a lot of people are seeing that you are calling "promotion."
+2 Reply
YaKa PRO MoonTrader
2 years ago
ok. At least you are talking about the price and that is fine. The price can go anywhere.. Very high or zero.
I am talking about guys who try to convince the crowd that bitcoin is useful/necessary should have a greater value and get irritated the moment someone says the contrary... That smells like guys who are long and try to support their pension fund.
-4 Reply
YaKa PRO MoonTrader
2 years ago
as per the line, please post your chart... in log, i dont see how the line could be wrong...
-4 Reply
MoonTrader YaKa
2 years ago
Here you go:
The only thing that matters right now
+2 Reply
YaKa PRO MoonTrader
2 years ago
i dont see the root of your line... so does not tell me anything but it does not matter, i see your logic... Monitor 240 then. ok.
-5 Reply
MoonTrader YaKa
2 years ago
You can click and drag the chart back to see the root ;)
+4 Reply
johnrfraser YaKa
2 years ago
I’m still vaguely long on btc but only because of the level of business investing and developing on it and of course, the political interest in the US.
My belief in bitcoin died though, the moment I heard that in response to the theft a couple months ago, it was announced that ‘THEY’ could ‘ROLL BACK’ the blockchain.
A currency or commodity that can be cancelled out after I’ve paid or been paid with it is entirely flawed and completely worthless.
And all at the hands of a single central organisation called blockchain.org
Then there’s the reliance on mining to provide a network.
It’s a broken relationship…inevitably incentive to mine can decrease while transaction volume and network demand can increase. So there’s a possible scenario where transaction demand outweighs the available network.
A crypto can surely only survive if the network is proportional to transaction volume…and the only way to achieve that is if transactions themselves sustain the network.
When I say this people say, ’all this time and you’re asking this question?’
Yes, and nobody’s provided a convincing answer :-(
I’ll still be buying sub 300 :-)
+2 Reply
YaKa PRO johnrfraser
2 years ago
watchout:)
you talk negative and you trade with hope... better trade aligned on something tangible...
All a question of money management though: good luck.
-3 Reply
YaKa PRO YaKa
2 years ago
-4: in progress:)
-3 Reply
Ez YaKa
2 years ago
Read the code if you want to understand it. Like you say, it looks like a total scam. Which means it doesn't necessarily have to be a scam. You can verify if it is a scam or not by reading the code.
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Nelty
2 years ago
I understand the frustration against the Bitcoin lobby. It has many fans. Can you blame them? The damn thing went from a couple of bucks to $1 200 in a few months. It has gained as much value relatively as gold did in 30 years...

Now, you have two choices. Either you believe that Bitcoin will continue to act as a commodity, like gold, and its price is likely to follow the Elliott wave pattern. This is not a scam, because this model has been tested many times and proved adequate.

On the other hand, Bitcoin could become a legitimate currency than everyday people know how to buy and spend on the Internet and real life. If it does, then its value will probably decrease a lot, but be more stable.

A scam is supposed to rob a lot of people to make rich a few. Here I think it's different, because either way, people are going to get rich and poor. The market is made in such a way that there should be some kind of balance between the two. So if the price crashes, people are still going to make lots of money betting on that crash, and the same in the opposite direction.
+2 Reply
YaKa PRO Nelty
2 years ago
Yes.

1) What I know is nobody criticize me more than when i write negative things about Bitcoin... Fishy.
2) Things that are useful don't need any lobby... you dont have a lobby for Iphones... people buy them despite the critics....

Elliott wave fits anything that trades... even assets that will go bankrupt.... Elliott is just mapping human behaviours
-2 Reply
IvanLabrie PRO YaKa
2 years ago
BTC: 5 quarter base


I've been a bear since 600 and got heavily attacked back then too...it's heading down, to 86 probably.
Bitshares is what Bitcoin should be, the mining is detrimental, encourages people to mine and dump to pay for power costs.
It's complcated and bitshares as well, hard to explain it to common folk.
See bitshares.org
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