Akil_Stokes
Long

EURUSD: Potential Bullish Garltey within the Consolidation

FX:EURUSD   Euro Fx/U.S. Dollar
Lot’s on my trading radar today gang. In fact out of the 11 pairs in my trading portfolio, I’m either involved or have pending orders on 7 of them. ( EURUSD             , EURJPY             , GBPUSD             , AUDUSD             , GBPJPY             , NZDUSD             , EURAUD             ).

The chart you’re looking at displays a potential bullish Gartley pattern on the EURUSD             . This pair has been in consolidation as of late which has been a positive thing for pattern traders, nailing profits on both the previous bullish cypher and bearish bat patterns that were offered. Will this next potential pattern meet the same fate? I hope so, but honestly there is no way to tell. Remember traders we don’t have any control over the markets, they do what they want when they want. The only thing that we can control is ourselves and how well we execute our trading plan .
The green/red boxes on the side will give you an idea of where I’m looking for initial stops and targets. The risk reward on this particular pair is slightly above 1:1 so unless we have a perfect completion, I’m expecting an inverse risk/reward going forward.

If you’re around this Friday I’ll be doing a Live Google             Hangout in my trading room. With the Non-Farm Employment release coming I have no intentions of trading so I figured we could all hang out and do a little Question & Answer. If you’re interested just head over and subscribe to my youtube channel. It will be THIS FRIDAY at 8am New York             Time. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVveEks3MWZqOsvzTF_LGQg

Akil Stokes
Chief Currency Analyst at Trade Empowered
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11021992
a year ago
Great. Was looking at the same thing.
snapshot
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Akil_Stokes TOP 11021992
a year ago
Nice! Good eye
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skymtrader
a year ago
GM Brother! Happening now,,,
EURAUD BULL GARLTEY
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Akil_Stokes TOP skymtrader
a year ago
Nice, doesn't meet my rules, but thanks for the share. hopefully others will see it in time
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mtylcnr
a year ago
good job . target 1,1330 :)
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Akil_Stokes TOP mtylcnr
a year ago
Nice!
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Nice one Akil! I took an ACE trade on NZDUSD (I know, I know, but it lined up nice and met my rules). Actually went straight up to my target for a juicy 90 pips. Still can't believe the progress I've made all because of you and Jason!
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Akil_Stokes TOP RobinOphion
a year ago
Well done! And hey meeting the rules is all that matters
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mtylcnr
a year ago
my wiev
snapshot
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Akil_Stokes TOP mtylcnr
a year ago
Thank you for sharing!
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Axel
a year ago
thanks :) looks great
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Akil_Stokes TOP Axel
a year ago
thanks Axel
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Axel Akil_Stokes
a year ago
yes i'd never seen this gartley because the short trade is still running. I do not want to confuse myself by new analysis.
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Akil_Stokes TOP Axel
a year ago
Yeah if you're going to trade based off technical analysis I wouldn't take news into account as far as being a reason to buy or sell
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Axel Akil_Stokes
a year ago
not news :D i mean new analysis during a running trade. and my engish is bad .... sorry
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Akil_Stokes TOP Axel
a year ago
Oh, that's my fault, I read it wrong. that's what i get from trying to rush to read comments between live room breaks
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MIchaelTran
a year ago
nice setup, sir , thank you for sharing.
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Akil_Stokes TOP MIchaelTran
a year ago
No problem Michael
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yeehuei PRO
a year ago
snapshot


I saw one potential Gartley and one potential Bat....
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ThomasJeff_DCM PRO yeehuei
a year ago
Had a pending order since last night, don´t trade gartleys normally but when i went true the night analysis it just looked to be in sutch a good area.
snapshot
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Akil_Stokes TOP ThomasJeff_DCM
a year ago
So you do or don't trade Gartley's?
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yeehuei PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Akil..
should i treat BAT and GARTLEY as 2 different trades? it seems to me that the Stop loss of Gartley pattern is the entry of the Bat pattern..

By the way, i think EURAUD trade doesnt go well...
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Akil_Stokes TOP yeehuei
a year ago
You could either split the position or choose one over the other for the EURUSD. Also what EURAUD trade are you talking about? i don't remember posting anything on that
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yeehuei PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
You mentioend you have 7 pending orders.. one of them is EURAUD.. so i was assuming you're talking about this BULLISH Gartley pattern.
snapshot
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Akil_Stokes TOP yeehuei
a year ago
No, That's not a gartley for me, so no pending orders were on that
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Akil_Stokes TOP yeehuei
a year ago
If you're allowed to take 2 different positions (we can't do so here in the US) you can always take both patterns individually
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ThomasJeff_DCM PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
heh Well 1-3 a month i will say if i feel they complete at a very good area else not. Man i read the long convasation you had further down with the captain, my hats off to keep your temper in a forum like that. Thats why i stopped posted trades. But please don´t stop just ignore these people! You are the Yoda of pattterns =D hope you had a good weekend
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Akil_Stokes TOP ThomasJeff_DCM
a year ago
Thanks, I'm trying to get better at that. As far as that particular conversation went, after I felt as if it was going nowhere I just stopped reading what was being posted. It's a lose lose situation for me and although I love to argue I need to do more of what you mentioned.
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ThomasJeff_DCM PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
You are doing more then enough you are helping so many people, i send 2 people to your trading course like 2 months ago, and one just came back to me now, he is from Australia and he told me his trading took off like a jet plane after he got the pro course he could not wait to finish it. Just backtesting it got his heart pumping like he never felt before just seeing how the stretegys just works over and over again. Keep the blind eye to those people and help struggeling traders like i was to see the light! It changes litterly our lives. So if some don´t agree, just turn the blind eye too them =D have a good evening

Kind regards
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Akil_Stokes TOP ThomasJeff_DCM
a year ago
Sorry for the late response, but thanks Tom, Remember if you're sending people to the course please let Darren know and we can certainly hook you up with something for helping us out.
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Trilo
a year ago
Nice spot Akil! so many pattern shares on your posts lol so I thought I will add to it. Good luck all!
EURUSD A number of high probability long entries forming.
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mtylcnr Trilo
a year ago
there is not elliottwave triangle 1,1280-90 not good idea for long bro be careful
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Trilo mtylcnr
a year ago
Care to explain ? As far as I am aware a elliott triangle is an ABCDE which subdivides into ABC and there are two converging lines forming a triange. E is unconfirmed so of course that entry I marked is not 100% going to occur. But with the information at the moment ABCD and the two trend lines have formed so there is a POTENTIAL of this trade if it does not get invalidated. I may be completely wrong lol but if I am please correct me.
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mtylcnr Trilo
a year ago
wave a has not abc subwave it is 12345. first reason it is not triangle to me
snapshot
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mtylcnr Trilo
a year ago
another reason near %61.8 correction enough , if it is triangle, correction can be alittle bit hight it is possible but so far.
snapshot
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Trilo mtylcnr
a year ago
Thank you.
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Akil_Stokes TOP Trilo
a year ago
Feel free. the more the merrier!
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Axel
a year ago
25.09.2015 - AUDCAD
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Tradingmonkey
a year ago
Good one !
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Akil_Stokes TOP Tradingmonkey
a year ago
Thanks!
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yeehuei PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
I would like to ask a dummy question... hope u can guide me...
1. Let say I have an open position with EUDAUD
2. I have Target Price 1 and Target Price 2. I want to set up my trade in such a way that I want the system to automatically adjust my stop loss to my Entry Price level when Target Price 1 is hit and close the position for me when Target Price 2 is hit.
3. How to do the above without manual intervention... Do most of the brokers offer such trade setup?
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Akil_Stokes TOP yeehuei
a year ago
First of all no such thing as a dummy question....well i guess there are, but it's not a dummy question if you're able to gain some knowledge from it.
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Akil_Stokes TOP yeehuei
a year ago
that will all depend on your charting package and what options they have some automated startegies
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Akil_Stokes TOP yeehuei
a year ago
For example, i use ninja trader so they have something called ATM strategies where you can set something like that up from. I'm not familiar with other trading platforms but I'd call them up and ask if they have anything like that
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barisay67
a year ago
??
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ElsaEur
a year ago
Is it time to buy
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ElsaEur ElsaEur
a year ago
Eurusd
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ElsaEur ElsaEur
a year ago
I'm sorry i just kinda need confirmation
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Akil_Stokes TOP ElsaEur
a year ago
It's time to buy whenever you rules for entry are met. If that means waiting for confirmation, then wait until the market gives you what you need
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ElsaEur Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Sometimes I just can't wait because the candlestck just move very fast making me want to open positon quickly.andi eve just took even if it's justa correction
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Axel ElsaEur
a year ago
yes i cant do this too i use generally limit orders so maybe i got filled or not
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Axel Axel
a year ago
or entry next bar market
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ElsaEur ElsaEur
a year ago
It's so hard to differentiate which one is a correction movement and which one is not correction movement
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Akil_Stokes TOP ElsaEur
a year ago
That is difficult and to be honest with you we never know until after it happens. trading is about making educated predictions and following a system that leaves us with an edge. that means if we continue to follow the rules trade in and trade out, in the long run we'll bring in more profit than what we take in losses. That is ofcourse unless we sabatoge our own trading which in my opinion is what hold most traders back.
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Akil_Stokes TOP ElsaEur
a year ago
That's why we have strict rules for when you buy and when you sell. there should be zero feelings involved. Either the opportunity meets your rules or it doesn't. Rules based Trading
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ezajaan032 Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Haih... I loss on EURJPY today.. :(( feelings........
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HKM666
a year ago
Although i´m not currently backtesting the Gartley pattern i´m glad to see that i was able to predict the exact same move!!
I´m waiting for PA to continue its up trending until 1.1254 to a Cypher completion (X Leg 1.1280).
If that occurs would offer a great trading opportunity for those who already involved in the long Gartley! Collect profits and then ride the market down with the Cypher.... although we´re still far away, it´s a prediction!
All of this thanks to knowledge of the PiPMASTER, the Great Akil!!
IPDE
Stay Safe and enjoy Life!
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Akil_Stokes TOP HKM666
a year ago
Thanks, good prediction and best of luck
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HKM666 Akil_Stokes
a year ago
I owe it all to you! I´m the one who as to say THANK YOU for your dedication and passion!!
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ezajaan032 Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Akil. I'm interested and so terribly wanted to learn about the gartley pattern.. It always offer perfect entries.. How can I learn about it ya. Your analysis were superb!! Congrats and keep it up!
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Akil_Stokes TOP ezajaan032
a year ago
A great starter book for harmonics and patterns is "Trade What You See" by Larry Pesavento
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ezajaan032 Akil_Stokes
a year ago
@akil thank you. Will go ang get the book.
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johan.larsson
a year ago
Akil, you were mentioning Ninja Trader in a previous post. Can you recomend any providers for data feed, that works with Ninja Trader? And, do all providers charge Money, or are there free ones?
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Akil_Stokes TOP johan.larsson
a year ago
Typically your data will be provided by the broker that you use, ninja should have a list of data providers and brokers that they work with on their website
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Akil, I'm probably a bit confused as to how your bullish Gartley is defined https://goo.gl/BGVJY8

Matching almost the same points on your drawing, I'm not getting the Gartley to match criteria from Scott Carney (Harmonic Trading Vol 1) in my screen snapshot. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.
snapshot


I'm wondering how closely drawings on Tradingview should match Carney's criteria. Is there an acceptable margin of discretion? So - can 0.786 be accepted as 0.8 for example? Grateful for your guidance and from anyone else. Many thanks.
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Mother-ofChinKeat Captain_Walker
a year ago
To me, the price bounces off the 618 retracement giving it a valid support, so the gartley stays valid and D point completion is a zone(PRZ).
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Captain_Walker PRO Mother-ofChinKeat
a year ago
And to me I'm seeing 0.647 - we must both be right.
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Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
For the B leg I require a B retracement that hits the 61.8, as long as we don't touch the 78.6 the B leg is still valid for me. Was this the point of interest? Just trying to figure out by reading the responses above
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Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
What exactly isn't lining up with what you're looking for?
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Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
I've actually written the criteria and annotated it. I thought it would be obvious.
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Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
I'm not asking about anything lining up. I am asking about how your Gartley came to meet widely accepted criteria?

The following are based on Carney's criteria for a valid Gartley:

1. Is the B point an exact 0.618 retracement of XA?
2. Does the BC projection to D point not exceed 1.618 (and is greater than 1.13)?
3. Is there a 0.786 XA retracement at D point?
4. Is there a valid ABCD pattern converging in the area of the 0.786 retracement of XA?
5. Is C Point with the range 0.382 and 0.886?

As far as I understand it, each of those need to answered in the affirmative for any valid Gartley.

Having copied the points at which you drew your Gartley, I am unable to see more than two of the above criteria being met in full i.e. only two (which I indicated on my annotated chart) are a definite 'yes'.

This is why I have asked my questions as above. I'm not looking for a tutorial on Gartley patterns. I'm only asking about the criteria you used in your post and any margin of discretion that can be applied to the Carney criteria.
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Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
Okay, i gotcha, sorry I thought you were talking about the particular leg. Lot's and lot's of testing that's all. That's what allows us to trade our advanced patterns using the rules that we do.
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Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
1. Did your drawing of your Gartley in your post "EURUSD: Potential Bullish Garltey within the Consolidation", meet all of Carney's criteria?

2. If no to the above, are you using criteria that are different to Carney's criteria for Gartleys?
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Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
No they did not, but I also don't trade advanced patterns by Carney's exact rules
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Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
And I don't mean any disrespect to Carney, i know a lot of people have read and learned from his Harmonic Trading books. But he did not invent these patterns and there are other ways to trade them aside from what he personally prefers
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Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Finally. Man, it felt like pulling teeth there for a while. I now understand why my application of Carney's criteria did not show a Gartley - you were applying your own criteria.

I think that creates an obvious difficulty for many if you're not gonna disclose the Stokes criteria for 'advanced patterns' for free.

If that is a reasonable inference or supposition, it seems to mean that when you post up potential 'advanced patterns' others either take it or leave based on their level of confidence in 'you' - absent of testable or verifiable Stokes criteria.
I don't see how traders out here are going to learn any independent knowledge or skill from that sort of thing. It could amount to copycatting.

My observations and reasoning are based only on what I see within these forums - and not on anything available beyond.
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Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
I love how you assume that I don't disclose my advanced patterns rules for free. Ask anybody here on tradingview that has asked me what I use and I tell them. Including yourself earlier when i thought the confusion was simply about my rules for the valid B leg. be very careful with making assumptions my friend., especially when you don't know the facts
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Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
"I love how you assume that I don't disclose my advanced patterns rules for free."
No such assumption was made. The word 'if' was used. It is a conditional in English grammar and indicative of speculation. I meant no rhetoric. Apologies for any misunderstanding.

"Including yourself earlier when i thought the confusion was simply about my rules for the valid B leg." - I didn't contribute to such confusion, as everything that was of importance was on the chart snapshot I posted. The chart was clearly annotated explicitly referencing all Carney criteria https://goo.gl/60PUvn

"be very careful with making assumptions my friend." - will continue to do so.

"Ask anybody here on tradingview that has asked me what I use and I tell them."
I will (see below). I like to stand corrected, if I've speculated incorrectly. It would have been simpler and more efficient perhaps, to just link into one of your Tradingview posts containing the criteria - or even just to cut and paste your criteria in here (and I was particularly interested in those relevant to Gartley).

I'd be grateful if you can link me (or post) 'your specific criteria' for identifying valid Gartley patterns - so I can see how your's varies from Carney's - and also any other 'advanced pattern' criteria you use. I'm also asking 'anybody here on Tradingview' who knows where Akil's criteria for 'advanced patterns' reside on Tradingview, to post a Tradingview link (or message me) - as up to this time I am unable to find.

To avoid as much as possible, any further misunderstanding: Carney has bullet pointed usually 5 criteria for most of his harmonics eg. like this https://goo.gl/Q9dal5. I'd be looking to see how variations on each of those 5, are made. I'm trying to be absolutely specific - hence the apparent level of OCD on this occasion. :)
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Mother-ofChinKeat Captain_Walker
a year ago
It is not so important to memorize what are the rules the others use, Carney or Akil, but i think it is more important to know, why are the rules as such.

"1. Is the B point an exact 0.618 retracement of XA?
2. Does the BC projection to D point not exceed 1.618 (and is greater than 1.13)?
3. Is there a 0.786 XA retracement at D point?
4. Is there a valid ABCD pattern converging in the area of the 0.786 retracement of XA?
5. Is C Point with the range 0.382 and 0.886? "

From what i know,Carney although did mentioned about a precise .618 retracement at B, but in the examples he gave in the book simply don't just "kiss" the 618, some exceeded and some don't even touch it. Carney mentioned about a less ideal alignment usually results in 'deeper' corrective structures, favoring a bat pattern completion.

The reason (that i think) from the above rules are:
1. Is the B point an exact 0.618 retracement of XA?
-Its the defining point to differentiate Gartley from other patterns like Bat , Butterfly, and Deep Crab, each with a different completion point so you don't mess up with the entry.

2. Does the BC projection to D point not exceed 1.618 (and is greater than 1.13)?
-This is because AB=CD pattern works closely with its reciprocal ratios of C retracement (i.e. 1/0.382 = 1.618 , 1/0.886 = 1.13). This also proves that point 5 is valid where c point is in 0.382 and 0.886 range.

3. Is there a 0.786 XA retracement at D point?
- this defines the "potential reversal ZONE(PRZ)" with the other rules converging with this level.

4. Is there a valid ABCD pattern converging in the area of the 0.786 retracement of XA?
-although a AB=CD pattern is important in the gartley, but you simply cannot put entry based on AB=CD alone, because a 0.382 C leg will have its AB=CD completion at X which is the maximum PRZ at 1.618 BC projection. Similarly, a 0.886 C leg will have its AB=CD completion not reaching the 0.786XA. The point the AB=CD pattern is trying to make is to help traders to identify the "zone".

5. Is C Point with the range 0.382 and 0.886?
-In my opinion, anything LESS than 0.382 is not a "deep-enough" retracement and beyond 0.886 , i'll be probably looking for a double top/bottom or maybe a cypher pattern's c leg.

What Akil had done with the rules is to make it as less subjectivity as possible to be incorporated in a trading plan. He uses a 1.27 AB extension to converge with 786 or 886 of XA (correct me if i am wrong, I'm not a client of tradeempowered). For your information, i learn almost everything especially advance pattern trading from Jason and Akil through their FREE videos, and i will strongly disagree with you that Akil did not disclose his criteria for FREE. Just do some homework, spend some time, be more committed to learn than to earn. In the process of digging the information yourself, you will probably learn more.
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Mother-ofChinKeat Mother-ofChinKeat
a year ago
Hope that helps ;)
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Captain_Walker PRO Mother-ofChinKeat
a year ago
".... i will strongly disagree with you that Akil did not disclose his criteria for FREE. "

Of course I said nothing of the kind. What I said was exactly, "I think that creates an obvious difficulty for many if you're not gonna disclose the Stokes criteria for 'advanced patterns' for free."

Where in that sentence is an assertion that "Akil did not disclose his criteria for FREE"? I don't see it. I don't think it's my job to teach on parsing of sentences and grammatical interpretation. Of course I can have no control over what meanings people wish to extract from my words. If I wanted to say 'Akil charges money for his criteria and keeps it close to his chest', then surely I could have said that for myself. I didn't and wouldn't - because that would be untrue.

Akil has since made clear in words to the effect, that he has distributed the criteria on Tradingview 'for FREE'. I have accepted that on faith, even though I cannot find a specific post where these criteria are sequestered in one spot.

" He uses a 1.27 AB extension to converge with 786 or 886 of XA (correct me if i am wrong, I'm not a client of tradeempowered)."
Sounds a bit doubtful as you're inviting correction in the chance that you could be wrong. I am a client of Tradeempowered. I'm yet to see on their site, a conspicuous, easily accessible list of rules or criteria that they or Akil uses (of the organised kind that Carney has provided)

See: https://goo.gl/TWVBTL - 5 criteria for Gartley from Carney, all nicely laid out in one place and findable very easily. What's the point? I would have no doubt or hesitation in reciting Carney's criteria for Gartley. I'd know exactly what they were(subject to any changes that Carney himself may have made since, of which I am unaware).

"The reason (that i think) from the above rules are:.... "
Thanks but I sought no understanding of Carney's applicaiton of his rules. Carney has already explained his stuff very well in his book 'Harmonic Trading Vol 1' and elsewhere findable via Google and YouTube. I have no questions or issues at this time about what Carney has written or illustrated in his book. But your post will help others. Thanks.

I said in an earlier post to Akil, "I'd be grateful if you can link me (or post) 'your specific criteria' for identifying valid Gartley patterns - so I can see how your's varies from Carney's - and also any other 'advanced pattern' criteria you use. I'm also asking 'anybody here on Tradingview' who knows where Akil's criteria for 'advanced patterns' reside on Tradingview, to post a Tradingview link (or message me) - as up to this time I am unable to find."

At this point it's 22 hours from my first post in this forum. 17 hours ago was when I came to understand that Akil uses a variation on Carney's rules - and requested to see exactly what those variations are. These are matters of fact. If it's all organised, systematised, well known by everybody or a majority of people on Tradingview, readily and freely accessible - I'm somewhat disappointed that it's taking so long to come forth. By contrast, in the odd chance that I should be rudely awakened at 4 AM on any morning and asked for Carney's Gartley and other pattern criteria (which I currently adhere to), I know how to access them, provide them and get back to bed in under 5 min. Good on me - as they might say in England.
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Mother-ofChinKeat Captain_Walker
a year ago
I am sorry if i interpreted your sentence wrongly :'(
I was just trying to say that Akil did disclose his criteria, although not in an easily accessible manner like Carney.
This forum provides us the chance to share experience and views, and i would not want to turn it to a battleground. However, if i offended you, i owe you an appology.
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Captain_Walker PRO Mother-ofChinKeat
a year ago
The difficulty with all forums is that there is only text to read, so words tend to be easily take on a different context to that originally intended. In normal spoken language there are other cues to carry meaning and intent. I know this from long experience on several forums around the net. No battleground. No offence taken. No apology required. But thanks. No worries. :)
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YuzukiChan
a year ago
this will not work.
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Akil_Stokes TOP YuzukiChan
a year ago
Thanks for sharing your opinion Yuzuki
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Captain_Walker PRO YuzukiChan
a year ago
I wouldn't be so certain about that. You don't say why you think so - so I'm not enlightened. Akil is using his own criteria - and has his own track record as proof. It is possible he has got it right - and if he is then that's great. In any event about 50-60% of harmonic trade setups may fail. So failure of this particular setup in this thread doesn't mean that much.

The problem I have is understanding why or how any particular variation of a system may give a better statistical edge. At least Carney was fully disclosed in his long track record and analysis. Others in these forums have made modifications of Carney and have disclosed their system. So I can see why and how they have an edge even after deviating from Carney. I am thankful to those people who have given so generously.
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Alexander_Nikitin TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
Akil's rules do not contradict to Carney's. they are just more specific. For example, instead of talking that B should be precise 0,618XA (which is almost impossible) Akil's rule says that B must lay within 0,618-0,786XA range. Instead of C lying within 0,382-0,886 AB range Akil's rules say that it should be within 0,618-1AB. the reason is in a "Failed Gartley pattern" that is known as a Crab pattern. The only way to differentiate between Gartley and Crab in advance is to pay attention to their C-point. 0,382-0,618 range for crab and 0,618-1 for gartley. Without this differentiation you are to take two trades. First you take Gartley and fail and after that you take revenge trade with crab. Backtesting shows that this manner of trading won't leave you on profit side. That's why Akil's patterns were specified the way they were. Just to differentiate one pattern from another using only ratios. No need to look at priceaction within the PRZ as it's made by Carney.
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Captain_Walker PRO Alexander_Nikitin
a year ago
I am well aware that pattern recognition and identification are only the initial stage (among several) in the making of successful trades. From my understanding, it can be a very crucial thing. By analogy only: if a lawyer went to court to fight my case and got the relevant law entirely wrong, it would be a tremendous struggle to outfox a court - when he/she wrong-footed him/herself from the outset. He/she could still win - because unusual things like that do happen on occasion.

"Akil's rules do not contradict to Carney's. they are just more specific." - I wouldn't be able to similarly confirm or refute that. I've never seen or been informed about his rules explicitly. By extension I couldn't reasonably say specifically, to what extent they differ from Carney's. Folowing the principle in the Pesavento quotation, I can only talk about what I see and know (or identify what I don't see and don't know). I've done that in relation to the specific issue I have addressed. Alexander, perhaps you have different factual knowledge, disclosed to you about Akil's 'rules'. I say 'factual', so as to distinguish from infered knowledge or knowledge acquired by 'working it out'.

It's a long thread - I will summarise:
I had not suggested or meant to suggest that Akil's rules contradict Carney's. A set of rules (criteria) can differ yet be consistent enough. I demonstrated good care when I asked a cautious question, " I'm only asking about the criteria you used in your post and any margin of discretion that can be applied to the Carney criteria." That meant I was willing to accept a variation of the Carney criteria and to learn more. Whilst I comment on Akil's supposed rules, I could have no actual or factual knowledge of them based on what I see his posts. .

I had observed intially that the criteria Akil was using did not seem to match Carney's, when I said "Having copied the points at which you drew your Gartley, I am unable to see more than two of the above criteria being met in full [i.e. only two (which I indicated on my annotated chart) are a definite 'yes'."

After further inquiries, Akil himself declared "No they did not, but I also don't trade advanced patterns by Carney's exact rules" in response to my inquiry about whether he was using some different criteria. He added ".. there are other ways to trade them aside from what he personally prefers" . That satisified my initial inquiry because I could then understand why my application of Carney fell short of matching his Gartley.

"Akil's rule says that B must lay within 0,618-0,786XA range. Instead of C lying within 0,382-0,886 AB range Akil's rules say that it should be within 0,618-1AB." - I can accept that accurate based on faith. However, I do not know if or when Akil declared that as such. I am unable at this time to find a reference to the latter in his posts. By contrast to yourself, I am nearly always able to see your rules, criteria or methodology - which you have so generously shared.

Having reviewed several of Akil's posts going back over the months, I have not found one of his 'advanced patterns' showing the numbers in relation to criteria he has used. I may have erred in my search. His charts invariably do not show fib numbers in relation to 'advanced patterns'. That's fine. I'm not saying that everybody has to declare their criteria all the time. However, it is observable to all that the majority of his potential pattern setups are not referenced against visible criteria. I think that is fair comment relative to the observable facts.

For the avoidance of wild inferences about my posts on this forum thread and possible false accusations about trolling, I declare that I have no interpersonal issues with Akil or have any motive to belittle him. I quite admire Akil. He has taught me quite a lot. I still continue to learn from his knowledge and experience on several aspects of trading, inside and outside of this forum. So, my posts in this thread are not meant to 'gun down Akil'. I have made no derogatory personalised remark towards Akil; confining my comments to the specific issue I have questioned.

Having reflected on all that and more, I think there is a wider issue of much importance (not specific to Akil): that if traders are to truly enhance their knowledge and skill based on shared experience and knowledge, then there should be more explicit disclosure about what they are actually doing. My assumption - possibly flawed - is that a majority of traders would like to gain true enduring competence at trading, by the means available within these forums. A proclaimed potential setup which is pretty bare of the 'nuts and bolts' of it, doesn't help much I imagine towards gaining true competence at trading. There are risks associated with simply following without true understanding, that I need not go into. Lemmings and cliffs come to mind.
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
What we try to do with our patterns Captain is eliminate any "grey" areas in the rules. Even with Carney, if I remember correctly price action didn't have to exactly hit the 61.8% rather there was this zone around it. Well how exactly do we define this zone, 1 pip before? Well what about 5pips? We wanted take that grey area away and create strict "If/then" rules that are 100% black or white. What Carney did was take the traditional rules of the pattern and trade them a specific way, We've done the same. As I mentioned in a response above, I don't hide the rules I use, so i'm a little confused at why you keeping saying I don't "disclose" my system. Watch my videos, spend time in my live room, look at my responses to questions here on tradingview. Everything is fully out there for the public.
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Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
"Watch my videos, spend time in my live room, look at my responses to questions here on tradingview. Everything is fully out there for the public." - when I accept that as correct, the difficulty is in finding a specific piece of information readily, that is 'out there'.

You will note that I said, "My observations and reasoning are based only on what I see within these forums - and not on anything available beyond." - so your live room is beyond Tradingview, as far as I am aware. As for spending time looking at your responses here on Tradingview - I will certainly pay more attention in the future. However, it is rather difficult to mine the forum backwards for one set of criteria in a response, in some thread posted days, weeks or months ago.

Here and now would seem like a good opportunity to post your criteria for 'advanced patterns', or a link to them. Lots of other people on Tradingview have posted very good stuff to Google docs or similar, making it easier to access or to link to others in a snap. Cheers.
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP Captain_Walker
a year ago
With all that being said, I would like to say that I appreciate the professionalism of your responses. Aside from a few false assumptions I'm glad that we were able to have an adult conversation that focused on the topic at hand instead of turning into a yelling match which is how many of the traders that don't like me tend to do. Thanks Captain
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Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Delighted with your comment. Am I in luck with getting your criteria from you, some time soon i.e. "post your criteria for 'advanced patterns', or a link to them"?
+1 Reply
KVE PRO
a year ago
Good find, I didn't have that one!
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Hi, Akil. nice work. I will stay short with bat till 1,272XA. So I won't enter gartley. for me gartley's XA is a part of Bat's XA correction. i dislike taking patterns having that kind of XA because of my extended targets. Cheers)
+4 Reply
antonyde
a year ago
Hello Akil, there is a question for you. I see you in some videos calculating the stops for a short trade usually at patterns completion (D leg) by using 1.13 fib extension. Is it something that you suggest to use to define the stops along with "above X area"?
Thank you!
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP antonyde
a year ago
Yes I'll typically use the ATR above X but using the 1.113 is a shortcut to predict where that ATR zone will be before you have a chance to get a valid calculation
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antonyde Akil_Stokes
a year ago
You use ATR by multiplying the ATR price times 2.Right?
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP antonyde
a year ago
I'll use anywhere between 1 and 2 and see what puts me at the best level. Usually it's 1 though because I'm not a fan of risking more than I have to
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antonyde Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Thanks.One more..on bearish Cypher can C level catch beyond 1.27 level? 1.414 or 1.618?
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP antonyde
a year ago
"catch"?
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antonyde Akil_Stokes
a year ago
I mean touch or test
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Akil_Stokes TOP antonyde
a year ago
It must touch the 1.272
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Akil_Stokes TOP Akil_Stokes
a year ago
But can't close beyond 1.414
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antonyde Akil_Stokes
a year ago
If does it touch 1.414 becomes invalid?
+1 Reply
antonyde antonyde
a year ago
Thank you!!
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Akil_Stokes TOP antonyde
a year ago
Still valid, and you're welcome
+1 Reply
Axel Akil_Stokes
a year ago
target 1 is hit jeeey
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP Axel
a year ago
Winner winner chicken dinner. Not big profits compared to original targets but anything earned is better than anything lost. Very goo discipline Axel!
+1 Reply
Axel Akil_Stokes
a year ago
thanks i dont know why i can hold a loosing trade (without moving stops) easyer. i'm the take profits early guy :D
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP Axel
a year ago
When a trade is losing we still have "hope" that it will turn around. When a trade is winning we have "fear" that the money is going to leave us. i've been there man. We all have
+2 Reply
antonyde
a year ago
Generally, after D completion if I want to play conservative with the targets aiming first for 0.382, would it be a good trading move to take my profits at this level and then based on price action think about target 2?
Do you suggest any other strategy to deal with it?
Thank you
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Akil_Stokes TOP antonyde
a year ago
Yes, if you're taking fibonacci based targets you certainly need to adjust your retracement as price action moves. If not then your targets will just be at random areas. If you're not a fan of moving targets because of what they do to the risk reward i would say to base them off of structure levels and try to manage the stop loss to conserve capital on the back end.
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SmartTradingFX
a year ago
Hi Akil,

When placing your stops for the Bullish Gartley, did the initial HL on the Bearish Bat not worry you?

+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP SmartTradingFX
a year ago
Are you talking about the one at the previous bat's "A" leg?
+1 Reply
SmartTradingFX Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Correct Sir?
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP SmartTradingFX
a year ago
It did and if I could i would have liked to put stops beyond that part just to take structure into account, but doing so would have given me an awful risk/reward
+1 Reply
adloule
a year ago
hi Akil,
do you have a videoto learn, how to draw the bat/Gartley pattern ?
thank you
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP adloule
a year ago
Check out my youtube page, I've discussed gartley's a lot some i'm sure you can find a few videos on there. I also recommend reading Larry Pesavento's book "Trading In The Zone" it's a great starter book on advanced patterns such as Gartley's, Butterflies and Bats
+1 Reply
Captain_Walker PRO Akil_Stokes
a year ago
Larry's books http://www.larrypesavento.com/books.php

Mark Douglas's book: http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Zone-Confidence-Discipline-Attitude/dp/1596598670
+1 Reply
adloule Captain_Walker
a year ago
thank you guys
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Axel
a year ago
looks like another bat pattern
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Axel Axel
a year ago
02.10.2015 - EURUSD
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thejohn74 PRO
a year ago
Akil, I enjoy watching some of the stuff you do. I'm really a huge skeptic of harmonic patterns. Maybe you can explain why they help your trading. My opinion is that any M or W pattern is just range bound movement back to some S/R level and the ratios don't matter at all. Do you really think institutional programs/traders are looking at bats and butterflys? Cheers and happy trading.
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP thejohn74
a year ago
Hey Johnson, . Advanced patterns are simply a strategy, just like a moving average cross system or say a trader that uses a combination of bollinger bands and stochastics. Institutions are not looking for these patterns at all, but their buying and selling action (since they can't enter the same as retail traders) is actually what forms the patterns in many cases. Hope this helps
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Akil_Stokes TOP thejohn74
a year ago
I would add if you're a skeptic, and you know that in the back of your mind you have doubt in these types of patterns, then the last thing you want to do is trade them. A trader who doesn't have a 100% belief in their system/strategy is more likely to make mistakes and sabotage their results.
+2 Reply
Kjetil_Johannesen PRO thejohn74
a year ago
I would just like to shoot in this: I have a friend who finished his masters degree in finance and economics a couple of years ago, and they were actually taught Bats, Gartleys and Butterflies. Food for thought?
That is actually the reason why I got interested in advanced patterns in the first place. I just started trading Bats a few weeks ago on demo, and I must say I'm having great success with them so far.
Last week I didn't have a single loss. Just a long string of winners, and some breakeven. Of course, a week is not long enought to be representative, but I'm gaining more and more belief in them as a strategy for consolidating markets.
And I love that you can just set a pending order at the D completion. Suits my lifestyle perfectly as I don't have to stay glued to my computer to be able to trade.
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thejohn74 PRO Kjetil_Johannesen
a year ago
I think the reason they may work is because they established irregular rangebound price action that ends near the edge of the range. For example, a bullish gartley the final leg extends beyond the previous leg, so it will be seen as oversold by traders expecting it to end at the extreme of the previous leg, and nearly at support of the initial leg, so scale in bulls will start to take positions...so it is "in harmony" that way. The fibs and exact ratios have nothing to do with it (just my opinion). I haven't seen any satisfactory explanation on why they are supposed to work, from Carney, or anyone... Thought maybe Akil knew something more specific. As long as they work for you, keep using them!
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP thejohn74
a year ago
I agree, the Gartley pattern was originally in use way before we had fibonacci tools or even related fibonacci to trading at all. Specific ratios were added in order for us to "identify it" but if you take all of that away and break it down to the basics, it's really nothing more than specific type of complex pullback giving traders an opportunity to jump in and a cheap price in comparison to the original move.
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Jurij
a year ago
good trade, hope you took it!
+1 Reply
Akil_Stokes TOP Jurij
a year ago
Thanks
Reply
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